Chapter 8 – “Why Do You Want to Find Shelley?”

“I’m not here to destroy the church,” I said. “I even paid off all my freeloader debts before the whole GAT 2 thingy…” 

The next morning Kirsten phoned my room saying that there was somebody from Russia in the lobby wanting to talk to me.

“Just like before, we will turn the tape recorder on and record the conversation. She works for us. She wants to ask you something about some Russian squirrels. Also, Russian is your first language. I just want to make sure you don’t have any language barrier. Let’s do it in some public place – at that table over there. Her name is Yuliya.”

Good that I changed my name, I thought. Otherwise they would have to number us: yuliya1 and yuliya2 in transcripts of this conversation.


“I’m so excited to meet you!” Yuliya exclaimed, “I never in my life met a real spy before! Tell me, what made you to become a spy? I bet you were watching lots of spy movies?”

Oh, great! I thought to myself. She must’ve had profiled me as a narcissistic-sociopath, or sociopathic-narcissist – but whatever…

“I’m not a spy,” I said. “I’m here to find out what is going on, and why the church is acting so cultish and why Human Rights are being violated.”

“What are you talking about?” she asked.

“The church is starting to act more and more like a cult,” I told her. “All these new rules..”



“Tell us what we need to fix, so people like you won’t be able to infiltrate us anymore,” she asked, and I had to question if knowing my opinion was her real intention.

“There is nothing you can do to stop infiltrations, but to come clean. DM should go to some talk show and confess to the public about everything he has done, and then resign his post and let somebody else take his place. Under his leadership too many people were SP declared and too many families were disconnected.” (I’d checked the records, 4762 people were SP declared.)


“It’s a good idea if he really did something wrong, but what if he has not done anything what people accuse him of? Why do you want him to confess to crimes he has not committed?”

“He has a bad reputation. Most people think he beats his staff! He did so many out-ethics things – disconnected families – and never had any handling on that – never did any lower conditions and never made up the damage!”

“And how do you know that? How do you know that he never had any handling? Have you even met him? Why do you think he never did any lower conditions? You don’t know that!”

(I was going to make a joke that if DM ever did any lower conditions, then preservation of materials and rewriting the basics must be his ‘making up the damage’ step, and just before I voiced that joke to her, it hit me: OMG, maybe DM did some handling and in fact, ‘preservation of materials’ might be a part of his ‘Liability formula’ – or at least is how he would like to portray it to public!)

[‘Liability formula’ – a lower ethics condition formula that starts out with the step, ‘Make up the damages…’]

“Okay, anything else?” Yuliya asked.

“OSA should show Shelly Miscavige to the public. People want to know if she is okay. I came here, hoping I can find some information about her.”

“Why you want to find Shelly? Is she your relative?”

“Because public wants to know. People worry about her. Because there are rumors she is dead!”

“So what? Even if she is dead – I’m not saying that she is – but let’s say she is dead. How is it somebody’s business? Why does it matter?”

“It matters if she was abused or died in the hole. Some people have their kids in the Sea Org, and what mother would send her kid here knowing that DM’s own wife is missing!”

“All people die. I don’t understand – why when somebody dies in the Sea Org, people right away think the worst – he or she died ‘of abuse.’ I knew one very old Sea Org member – he died just recently. Does not mean he was abused – he was just old. I knew another Sea Org member – one day he was healthy and everything, and then the next day he had a stroke and I saw him in a wheelchair! So what? Sometimes it happens. Does not mean people are being abused!”

She got me there. I could not disagree with that.

“One more thing,” she said, “I need a list of states you’ve ever been to.”

I shrugged my shoulders, but wrote down a bunch of places where I’d never been, and added some places I did visit, just to make her happy.

“Oh, you have been in Texas?” she exclaimed, “I bet you went there to see Debbie Cook!”

I laughed.

“Why would I do that? I went there with my husband and kids on vacation,” I explained.

“Why did you not visit Debbie Cook, since you love her so much and sent her 1,000 dollars for her legal defense, and got others to send her money!” she asked and added, “You could’ve spent that money on your kids! And you did not even sent Headleys as much as you sent to her!”

“I thought she was awesome,” I said, and quickly changed the topic. We talked about my mission and the OTL, and all posts I had while I was on staff, and my experience in the Sea Org. She wanted to know how and why I joined Scientology, and why I left the Sea Org, and all my life story.

[‘OTL’ – Operations Transport Liason – a Hubbard term applied to remote organizations in foreign countries – in this case Russia]

We talked and talked.

We found out I knew her husband and some mutual friends, because just like me, she got in Scientology in the 90s, and was there from the beginning.

“You only was in the Sea Org for a little over a year – not even two years. What could you possibly see there that made you such an activist?” she asked

I told her about my friends and child abuse I’d seen, and forced abortions, and disconnections I observed, I even told her that nobody told me my grandpa died, and that they hid all letters from my mother.  I told her lots of things and I was surprised she did not asked me for any names, as if she did not want to know.

We took a little break for lunch , then Yuliya began asking me about squirrels from Russia, but I never met people she was talking about.She was mostly interested if I was in contact with someone named Dvorkin.

“I’m not here to destroy the church,” I said. “I even paid off all my freeloader debts before the whole GAT 2 thingy…”

[‘squirrels’ – a label used in Scientology to disparage anyone who practices the subject outside their official authorization]

[‘freeloader’ – by policy, and despite the fact the Sea Org member has worked for very little pay and long hours, all courses and counseling must be paid for at full retail public rate if you leave your staff position]

 [‘GAT 2’ – “Golden Age of Tech” – Phase II – a re-release of Hubbard’s technology to the public informing them that they must now buy the latest, “corrected” versions]


Then she changed the line of questioning and began asking me about my parents, my relatives, where they live and if anyone of them is involved in Scientology, and what my parents do for a living and how much money they are making and if they have a house or any real-estate.

[SG note – the above is disturbing in that the information was being collected for the purpose of developing “intelligence” on Lia’s family for developing “leverage” in dealing with her in the future]

I quickly changed the subject back to Russian squirrels. “The only two Russian squirrels I knew were Kudrin and Rebenkov,” I said. “They were active back in 90s, and I was sent by my ED to investigate them. I signed up for their courses and went to the Institute where Rebenkov was delivering auditing and training, I pretended to be one of his students and then wrote to RTC a detailed report about it and our interview, but you guys and RTC did not do anything about it- that’s all I know.”

She also wanted to know where all my ethics folders and pc folders and I had no idea. The last I’d heard, they were in Moscow but after the government had a raid on the church, they’d disappeared.

We talked a lot about how David Miscavage messed up LRH’s church and how independents want him to be replaced.  Deep inside I knew that L. Ron Hubbard himself was behind things David Miscavage was doing. Most of policies were written by him originally.  Of course, I did not tell her that. I was there, not trying to represent independents or critics, I was there by myself, trying not to get labeled or misunderstood. I did not tell her that I spent many days trying to locate original RPF order so I could post it all over the internet, because I promised that to Kenneth Urquhart. But the original order was gone for good, I went through a bunch of old Flag orders.

“So, you just a fighter for the truth, aren’t you?” she asked me. “You are not here to destroy the church but to make sure people know the truth and to make sure Sea Org follows the tech? Do you believe in the tech? Do you think the tech works?”

I thought for a second. There were lots of things I disliked about Scientology, and most of things I disliked did not began with DM, it started much earlier.  Independent Scientologists don’t follow the tech blindly and operate on “pick and choose” basis.  L.Ron Hubbard, himself, wrote a lot of outrageous things and I was well aware of that.  I even took pictures of some original orders he wrote.  But it did not mean his tech did not work.  The question was, what is the real goal of the tech.

“Yes, I believe in tech. I think it works,” I said.  And I was not even lying.










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